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	<title>Comments on: Falcon Storage Engine Design Review</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/</link>
	<description>Everything about MySQL Performance</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Pgsql</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-350103</link>
		<dc:creator>Pgsql</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-350103</guid>
		<description>I'm laughing so hard reading this. Falcon should be the best thing since sliced bread and at least from this discussion I can see that it will be (like other MySQL stuff) just a hack, not a viable database engine. Maybe things will change, maybe not. I'm even more glad I never took on using MySQL but Pgsql instead. Zero problems, zero crashes, zero database corruptions in 10 years with hundreds of gigabytes of data.

And no, I don't want to start a flame war, but this really doesn't look like real database development to me. But this discussion is old, maybe I should read more what's been done in the past 1,5 years. I won't hold my breath, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m laughing so hard reading this. Falcon should be the best thing since sliced bread and at least from this discussion I can see that it will be (like other MySQL stuff) just a hack, not a viable database engine. Maybe things will change, maybe not. I&#8217;m even more glad I never took on using MySQL but Pgsql instead. Zero problems, zero crashes, zero database corruptions in 10 years with hundreds of gigabytes of data.</p>
<p>And no, I don&#8217;t want to start a flame war, but this really doesn&#8217;t look like real database development to me. But this discussion is old, maybe I should read more what&#8217;s been done in the past 1,5 years. I won&#8217;t hold my breath, though.</p>
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		<title>By: jonas-AT-mysql.com</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-246852</link>
		<dc:creator>jonas-AT-mysql.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-246852</guid>
		<description>ADVERTISING:
Ordered data reads

Is implemented in mysql-server level, it's internally referred to as BKA (batched key access)
It's implemented for cluster (to reduce latency, instead of ordering reads)

I'm not sure exactly which mysql version this will appear in.
References:
http://forge.mysql.com/worklog/task.php?id=2771</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ADVERTISING:<br />
Ordered data reads</p>
<p>Is implemented in mysql-server level, it&#8217;s internally referred to as BKA (batched key access)<br />
It&#8217;s implemented for cluster (to reduce latency, instead of ordering reads)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure exactly which mysql version this will appear in.<br />
References:<br />
<a href="http://forge.mysql.com/worklog/task.php?id=2771" rel="nofollow">http://forge.mysql.com/worklog/task.php?id=2771</a></p>
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		<title>By: Arioch</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-171451</link>
		<dc:creator>Arioch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:23:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-171451</guid>
		<description>typo: beeing ACID on **column-level** but being not on row-level</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>typo: beeing ACID on **column-level** but being not on row-level</p>
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		<title>By: Arioch</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-171450</link>
		<dc:creator>Arioch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-171450</guid>
		<description>&#62; I agree most transactions are small and should be fine but if you have long running transactions, for example batch jobs you may end up in trouble or be forced to rewrite them to commit often.


Falcon is obviously derived from previous Jim's work on Groton database (later it was known as Interbase, now as Firebird SQL server). Any one familiar to those db engines will recognise many features, described above, as well-known strong and poor points of Firebird SQL server.

For example, about transacttions above, preferred way to use Interbase/Firebird is a bi-transactional mode: one transaction is never-closing read-only read-commited one, another connection used to commit all the changes to database in a serie of short-lived not-read-only serializable transactions. Guess something alike will work fine for most application over Falcon engine.

BTW, one known drawback about Firebird/Interbase is its beeing ACID on row-level but being not on row-level. For example INSERT INTO TABLE SELECT * FROM TABLE would not duplicate a table, buit instead continue cloning itself until all possible disc space for database file would be claimed. I wonder if this is the same for Falcon SQL engine ? this is not obvious rooks on you step-way :-) If found true, i think anyone experimenting with Falcon engine is better to keep an eye on Firebird/Interbase historic users experience, until with development going on codebases wold diverge that far that features and drawbacks of engines would became unrelated (will it? both engines are based partially on Jim's idea of most practical database, hence with different code it perhaps would tend to achieve the same goals)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; I agree most transactions are small and should be fine but if you have long running transactions, for example batch jobs you may end up in trouble or be forced to rewrite them to commit often.</p>
<p>Falcon is obviously derived from previous Jim&#8217;s work on Groton database (later it was known as Interbase, now as Firebird SQL server). Any one familiar to those db engines will recognise many features, described above, as well-known strong and poor points of Firebird SQL server.</p>
<p>For example, about transacttions above, preferred way to use Interbase/Firebird is a bi-transactional mode: one transaction is never-closing read-only read-commited one, another connection used to commit all the changes to database in a serie of short-lived not-read-only serializable transactions. Guess something alike will work fine for most application over Falcon engine.</p>
<p>BTW, one known drawback about Firebird/Interbase is its beeing ACID on row-level but being not on row-level. For example INSERT INTO TABLE SELECT * FROM TABLE would not duplicate a table, buit instead continue cloning itself until all possible disc space for database file would be claimed. I wonder if this is the same for Falcon SQL engine ? this is not obvious rooks on you step-way <img src='http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> If found true, i think anyone experimenting with Falcon engine is better to keep an eye on Firebird/Interbase historic users experience, until with development going on codebases wold diverge that far that features and drawbacks of engines would became unrelated (will it? both engines are based partially on Jim&#8217;s idea of most practical database, hence with different code it perhaps would tend to achieve the same goals)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Stephens</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-50961</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Stephens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-50961</guid>
		<description>I think that the "No Clustering Index support" would be the biggest negative for me, or anyone that has had to deal with very large databases.  While Jim makes the point that memory is cheap, just as the price of memory has continued to fall the amount of data that  is being collected and stored has continued to rise; which cancels out the cheaper memory solution for companies that are dealing with large amounts of data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the &#8220;No Clustering Index support&#8221; would be the biggest negative for me, or anyone that has had to deal with very large databases.  While Jim makes the point that memory is cheap, just as the price of memory has continued to fall the amount of data that  is being collected and stored has continued to rise; which cancels out the cheaper memory solution for companies that are dealing with large amounts of data.</p>
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		<title>By: James Day</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-30126</link>
		<dc:creator>James Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-30126</guid>
		<description>Apachez, read buffer or sort buffer? The sort buffer was recently changed so it would be reused in subqueries instead of being reallocated. If you're seeing the same problem with the read buffer please provide a bug with a test case like the one in http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21727 and it will probably be fixed quickly. Please mention that James asked you to report it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apachez, read buffer or sort buffer? The sort buffer was recently changed so it would be reused in subqueries instead of being reallocated. If you&#8217;re seeing the same problem with the read buffer please provide a bug with a test case like the one in <a href="http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21727" rel="nofollow">http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21727</a> and it will probably be fixed quickly. Please mention that James asked you to report it.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-29176</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-29176</guid>
		<description>Apachez,

Right now you simply should not run MySQL with  default settings - performance will be really poor. 

Some auto configuration functions would be good but take out parameters would not be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apachez,</p>
<p>Right now you simply should not run MySQL with  default settings - performance will be really poor. </p>
<p>Some auto configuration functions would be good but take out parameters would not be.</p>
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		<title>By: Apachez</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28909</link>
		<dc:creator>Apachez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 01:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28909</guid>
		<description>Yes but at the same time we can see that the current configurations of mysql is not good either. For example take the case of readbuffer which at first sight might sound good to set to 32M or higher. Unless if you use subqueries because then mysql will puke at you and start going slower than an excel97 :P

Would be interresting if some auto settings could be developed within mysql so we could get the best from each world... in other words allow both "read_buffer = 32M" aswell as "read_buffer = auto".

Also the examples which is included mysql (my-huge.cnf etc) seems a bit outdated regarding how the memory is being used in today versions of mysql 5.x.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes but at the same time we can see that the current configurations of mysql is not good either. For example take the case of readbuffer which at first sight might sound good to set to 32M or higher. Unless if you use subqueries because then mysql will puke at you and start going slower than an excel97 <img src='http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Would be interresting if some auto settings could be developed within mysql so we could get the best from each world&#8230; in other words allow both &#8220;read_buffer = 32M&#8221; aswell as &#8220;read_buffer = auto&#8221;.</p>
<p>Also the examples which is included mysql (my-huge.cnf etc) seems a bit outdated regarding how the memory is being used in today versions of mysql 5.x.</p>
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		<title>By: -TMA-1- &#187; links for 2007-01-14</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28877</link>
		<dc:creator>-TMA-1- &#187; links for 2007-01-14</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jan 2007 00:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28877</guid>
		<description>[...] MySQL Performance Blog » Falcon Storage Engine Design Review (tags: Tech Database MySQL Falcon Guide) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] MySQL Performance Blog » Falcon Storage Engine Design Review (tags: Tech Database MySQL Falcon Guide) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28731</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jan 2007 22:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mysqlperformanceblog.com/2007/01/12/falcon-storage-engine-design-review/#comment-28731</guid>
		<description>Apachez,

What you're saying is "one option is best, if database can manage it optimally" I totally agree with you and I would enjoy having zero options and let database to read my mind what is really important for this application (as it is tradeof in  many cases).  

My main point is it is not possible or hard to get it right so have automatically detected defaults but still let users to adjust behavior if algorithm fails for some reason. 

Compare it to MySQL Optimizer for example.  It is designed to provide optimal query plan right ?  But we all know it does not always do it and no optimizer gets it right in 100% cases - this is what hints are for. 

Removing hints before optimizer is right in 100% cases would be silly, I feel same about configuration options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apachez,</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re saying is &#8220;one option is best, if database can manage it optimally&#8221; I totally agree with you and I would enjoy having zero options and let database to read my mind what is really important for this application (as it is tradeof in  many cases).  </p>
<p>My main point is it is not possible or hard to get it right so have automatically detected defaults but still let users to adjust behavior if algorithm fails for some reason. </p>
<p>Compare it to MySQL Optimizer for example.  It is designed to provide optimal query plan right ?  But we all know it does not always do it and no optimizer gets it right in 100% cases - this is what hints are for. </p>
<p>Removing hints before optimizer is right in 100% cases would be silly, I feel same about configuration options.</p>
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